March 26th, 2008
If you pay for the hosting of your blog and you have automatic deductions comming out of your PayPal account. It is a good idea to make sure that the card tied to your PayPal account has not expired.
That is all.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled blogging.
March 24th, 2008
I feel a little humbled right now. After my long diatribe Cowboy had this to say.
"Hey eaglewood,
I don’t have time to discuss this the way it needs to be discussed right now. But before this gets out of hand, I need to make a clarification and an apology. Re-reading my words in your post made it glaringly obvious that I was extremely clumsy in making my point. I did not really mean to say that Yeshua was not God when he was on the earth. What I meant to say was that he never LIVED as God. He willingly gave that up when he came to earth and lived here as a perfect man.
It’s a subtle difference, but an important one. I apologize for being so reckless and clumsy with my keyboard.
That said, the reason I made the point in the first place is because religion teaches you that "Jesus is God and we’re mere mortals." That’s a lie. Yeshua lived his life on earth as an example to us of how we are to live. I am by no means claiming I’m there – I’m far from it. But it is my intention and goal to be, in every way, exactly like Yeshua Moshiach. Here. In this life. On the earth. Nothing he did is out of our reach. Nothing he was is beyond us. BECAUSE he redeemed us and restored us to the very same status he had when he walked the earth.
That’s why he said he is the head but we are his body and why he prayed to the Father that He would make us one with Yeshua even as Yeshua and Abba are one.
I noticed you didn’t address my points about thinking it not robbery to be equal with God and "as he is, so are we in the earth."
BTW, I’m sure I’ve said this before, but I just want to say again for emphasis: I love you, brother. This isn’t a fight to me. It’s iron sharpening iron."
I will get back to his questions. I just thought it important to get this up as I had all but accused him of heresy in the last post.
March 22nd, 2008
Wow, when I apologized I was truly beginning to think that I was simply misunderstanding what Cowboy was saying. Now I know that my original understanding was a correct one. He has laid it out in writing here on my blog. Please read the comments in the last post to see all of what he said but here is a portion of his statement.
“Yeshua never even claimed to be “God” while he was on earth. He was certainly special because he was (at the time) the “only begotten SON.” He even played that down most of the time. He preferred to be known as the “Son of Man.” He WAS NOT GOD when he was on the earth and there is absolutely no scriptural evidence that he was.” Digital Cowboy
I want to ask you some questions. At this time it is not theological debate, I need clarification. If Yeshua was not G_d while he was here on earth what was He before His very short stint here? If He was not G_d while He was here at what point did He become G_d? If He was not G_d while here even with self limited power how was His sacrificial death of any use to me or you for that matter? Are you claiming that the ONLY thing needed for atonement for each person’s sins was the death of a sinless man, and that the death of G_d himself was not required? You are right this is the crux of our disagreement. Rather than write it again I will quote myself on my position.
“Yes, he willingly gave up His equality while He was incarnated. It was essential to the plan. He had to become a man but that did not mean He stopped being G_d while he was incarnated. My understanding is that losing his equality had to do with the fact that placing Himself inside time had limiting effects upon Him. This was all necessary as He had to take on flesh in order to die, but if He was just a man then His death was not enough. In order for the atonement to fulfill all of Jehovah’s requirements it had to be more than the blood of a righteous man it had to be the blood of G_d. There have been other righteous men in history, Enoch is the one that stands out to me. He was so righteous Jehovah took him up to be with Him and he did not die. Simply being righteous was not qualification enough. The incarnation may be one of those things we do not completely understand this side of the veil, but I am quite sure that Yeshua was indeed G-d while he was incarnated.”
35 Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
36 He answered, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?"
37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you."
38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him.
John 9: 35-38 NASB
25 The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us."
26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He."
John 4: 25-26 NASB
These are just two occasions in scripture that Yeshua affirmed His deity. The Son of Man was a title for the Messiah and on the other occasion He said He was the Messiah. It was well understood that the Messiah was going to be G_d in the flesh. The Pharisees knew this as well as most of the common Hebrew people. The difference was that the Pharisees and others expected the King not the Servant. It was His claims to be the Messiah that got Him sentenced to death by the Sanhedrin. Those in the Sanhedrin knew his claim to be the Messiah was a claim that He was G_d in the flesh. Hence the reason He was charged with blasphemy. Only G_d in the flesh could make those claims and not blaspheme.
I have shown TWO scriptures that show He claimed the be G_d. I will even challenge you to show me specifically where He claims otherwise.
After I wrote this I noticed that Cowboy had wrote another comment on a previous post I will post it in its entirety.
“Hey eaglewood,
I’m sorry to be so slow getting back to this (and I may not be attentive to it in the near future). I explained that on your current post.
I appreciate you clarifying specifically what it was that got you worked up in my comment at Heidi’s. This was a misunderstanding. I never meant that I reject the idea of Him being infinite. I reject the idea that we cannot know Him intimately and that we can never understand why He does what He does the way He does it. I agree with you that we can never in this finite life understand all of Him at once. But I refuse to believe, because it’s simply unscriptural, that we somehow live in some fog trying to figure Him out and that He’s mysterious.
It’s religious hogwash that originated with the enemy. Yeshua said, “I no longer call you servants but friends. The servant knows not what his master does, but now I share with you all things.” Later he specifically referred to the gift of the Holy Spirit as one who “will reveal to you all things>” (emphasis obviously mine). John wrote, “We have an unction of the Holy One and know all things.”
Abba wants to be known and He has no desire to be mysterious to us. He hides things for us. He does NOT hide things from us.
Yeshua prayed that we would be one with him even as he was one with Abba. That’s what he purchased for us with his death and resurrection. Let me be perfectly clear on this: I am always humbled in His presence – and by choice. Also, we should always be focused on perfecting the skill of walking in His love towards all. But we are not called to the false humility that religion teaches. We have dominion and authority. We are both Kings and Priests. All of us. Every born-again believer.
He sent us, with his Name, to subdue the earth. He also paid for us to be adopted into the family. The Creator of the universe is my Abba – Daddy. There’s no lack of respect in that. Understanding that is one of the most humbling things I’ve ever experienced. Yeshua is my big brother. Yahweh is my Daddy. Because they chose me.
That realization can do what rules and religion never can. We have to get past our false, religious humility and realize that we are His chosen ambassadors. Being poor, broken, confused and humble in this natural world does not represent Him.
He certainly doesn’t need us to make goofy excuses for Him. He needs no defenders. That’s what I hear in so much of this “we can’t know” or “GAWD works in mysterious ways, brother” garbage. It’s trying to explain why one’s particular religion failed by blaming confusion about His will. That dog won’t hunt for me.
Love never fails. He never fails. A whole lot of times, we fail. Religion blames Him for our failures. (You could easily substitute the word satan for religion in that previous statement. That’s no coincidence.)
That’s why I despise it and why I get so passionate about these things.
I know you have experienced personal tragedy in your life. I have too. Step back and see who is really to blame. It’s not you – you knew no better and were overpowered at that time. That’s what I learned from my earthly father’s death. (”My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.”) We have a choice. We can choose to say, “He’s infinite and we’re mortal. We can never understand because His ways are higher than our ways.” And then go on hoping *real hard* that when we pray we might get what we ask for, like writing a letter to Santa Claus. That’s what religion does. I’ve chosen to take the alternative: press in and find out how to live like Yeshua lived on this earth so I can prevent it from happening again. Then, like Paul I can boldly say, “I give thanks to Yah who always causes me to triumph.” (II Cor. 2:14) I dare you to find me anywhere that Yeshua failed to heal anyone, ever. Lazarus would be a choice example. }:-)
The thief comes not but to steal, kill and destroy but Yeshua came that we might have the zoe, Yah style of life and have it (that kind of life) in the kind of abundance that is more than, more than enough.”
The thing is I agree with Cowboy here for the most part. I have never blamed myself or Jehovah for my son’s death. His death happened and I had no control over it. The thing is I could sit back and moan and whine to Yeshua over his death or I could accept that it happened, and understand that one day I will see him again. As long as we are in a fallen world tragedy will happen, our response to that tragedy helps define who we are. My son did not die because I had a lack of knowledge or because I was overpowered. It simply happened. Job had more personal tragedy than any other figure in the Bible yet it was his response to that tragedy that defined who he was. I also want to be defined in the same way.
March 19th, 2008
Sometimes it is interesting the conversations I get into. Similar topics jump up in separate places. Digital Cowboy has a rant about the witnessing methods of Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort. Roland has a very long multi post discussion going on about how we treat others in witnessing. One of his commenters was defending "The Way of the Master" which is a teaching program on witnessing. After just a little research I found out that Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort put this material out. Small world is it not? The discussion there leaked out into a discussion I was having with my oldest son on seeing the world as more than just black and white, or right and wrong.
The discussion centered on what was basically a misunderstanding in terminology between us, but also a bit of naivete on his part (he is only 16). I argued that there were areas that are gray. Basically that there are things that are not necessarily wrong but conflict with each other such as the discussion over at Roland’s about differing methods of witnessing. Cowboy may disagree on that point. I digress a little there. My point is not on that but I think I was wrong about seeing things in shades of gray. Evil is still evil it is black because it is in the darkness, but those things in the light are not white but full of vibrant color. Jehovah made us all unique. In that uniqueness we have different ways of dealing with life, different ways of seeing things and that is where the color comes in. When we read scripture we see different nuances in meaning. This is why I believe the analogy of the body of Christ is so dead on. Each of us has a role and the gifts to carry out that role. We make up the different parts of the body, or as I see it the different colors of the spectrum. The problem is that we often put on our filtered glasses (I have been guilty too many times to count) and block out all the other colors to the point all we see is black, and white. I think that maybe we need to back up take off the filters and see each other in the vibrant colors Jehovah meant us to be seen in.
To that end I want to apologize to Digital Cowboy. I may not agree with you on all points but Jehovah made you with some unique colors and I praise Him for it. I got on my high horse (that is usually where I keep my filtered glasses) and attacked him for a perceived slight on the things I teach. For that I truly apologize and ask your forgiveness Cowboy.
March 13th, 2008
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I got this from Heidi.
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| You scored as Judge
You are a Judge Empath, one who is a "truthsayer". You can tell truth from lies, good from evil. You do not tolerate wrong doing. You are a defender of the good and the innocent. You are kind and merciful but do not play foolish games. (from "The Book of Storms" by Jad Alexander at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Empaths/)
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March 2nd, 2008
Cowboy is right in one regard in his last comments. I am a bit touchy. I get a little touchy about people who claim they are out to destroy something but couch it in nebulous terms such as "religion" as if the word itself were somehow evil. I get touchy about someone who says they need to protect their Daddy’s reputation, as if Jehovah needed us to do so. I get touchy when someone who claims to follow Yeshua turns around and seems to deny His eternal nature and Godhood. You want me to ask direct questions, I will. Maybe this will clear things up. In my last post I did not want to be too direct as I wanted to avoid what could have been a real ugly confrontation. I wanted to know that the HUGE red flags that kept popping up were just my imagination, but it seemed each thing you wrote just kept on reinforcing what I was seeing, so Let me see if I even have your position right before I go any further.
You state that when we have a “born-again” experience we become a complete new creation. That Yeshua had to be “born-again” to show us how we can have that same experience. (please correct anything I have gotten wrong) This is why He is the firstborn amongst many. While our rebirth here is spiritual, and we do not obtain our new bodies yet, we become something other than human. In essence we become something greater just like Yeshua. I think that is the essence of what you have said, Please feel free to elaborate or correct me if I am wrong. On to the questions.
You have made several references to Yeshua needing to be “born-again”. What is your basis for this belief? If Yeshua was G_d in the flesh and without blemish (no sin) why would He personally need this rebirth? Was Yeshua something less that G_d before His death and resurrection? If He was indeed G_d before His resurrection what has changed about Him?
You claim that Yeshua has had a “born-again” experience and is the firstborn amongst many. You have also stated that those who are “born-again” are no longer mortal or human, that we are something more. What are we then? Do we become gods, angels, something else?
I think I will leave it at these two multi point questions for now, but something else has stuck in my craw since you said it over at Heidi’s. Quite frankly it may have been what set me off to begin with. You made the claim in an almost flippant way that you did not like it when people said that Jehovah is infinite. Why? If He is not infinite then He is finite there is no in between. If He is not infinite then what good was His sacrifice? At what point does it end?
Unlike you Cowboy I did not grow up in the church in fact I was raised in an atheist household. I have a complete mistrust of what most people in leadership roles within the organized church say. I did not come to follow Yeshua lightly. His Word is final to me and I can see how you have possibly come to your conclusions, but I do not see them supported by the whole of His Word.
If you truly understood my calling (most people don’t) maybe you would see where I am coming from. I quit talking about my calling because most people look at me like I am crazy. Once you get a glimpse of who He is in all of His Holy Wonder you never forget. When I talk about Jehovah being Holy, I know it is more than just an attribute, I have felt the weight of it, I have also felt the wonderful lightness of His Love. I know that Yeshua is Love, but I also KNOW He is so much more. Only an Infinite G_d could be what Yeshua is.
